Justice
Okay, so my wife alerted me to this and it's been bugging me all day. Some girl (16) sent naked pictures of herself to her boyfriend. After they broke up, he posted them on his MySpace. The cops saw them, they told him to take them down. He refused and they arrested him.
Okay, two crimes here. Posting pictures of a naked 16 year old (child pornography) and refusing to follow a police order (which he gets punished for). Here's a thought, why not just arrest him and not warn him? What's the slap on the wrist for? Doesn't it say something that we are willing to excuse a first offense in cases of CHILD PORNOGRAPHY! And doesn't it say something that what really finally got the cops riled enough to do something was him defying their order. I swear it's come to the point where ignorance of the law really is an excuse and people are able to claim ignorance of any law under the sun. If the kid didn't know that posting naked pictures of his ex on the internet is wrong, then maybe a few years in jail will teach him some human decency. It's the cops in this case that really piss me off though. Do they not have jobs? Are they really only offended enough to arrest someone when their orders don't get obeyed (and why does that have anything to do with it at all)? Ask the girl when the crime was committed. See if she gives a crap about the kid not listening to the cops. I'm pretty sure she thinks that the kid ought to have been arrested as soon as he pressed upload.
Something wrong there. Seriously wrong.
Okay, two crimes here. Posting pictures of a naked 16 year old (child pornography) and refusing to follow a police order (which he gets punished for). Here's a thought, why not just arrest him and not warn him? What's the slap on the wrist for? Doesn't it say something that we are willing to excuse a first offense in cases of CHILD PORNOGRAPHY! And doesn't it say something that what really finally got the cops riled enough to do something was him defying their order. I swear it's come to the point where ignorance of the law really is an excuse and people are able to claim ignorance of any law under the sun. If the kid didn't know that posting naked pictures of his ex on the internet is wrong, then maybe a few years in jail will teach him some human decency. It's the cops in this case that really piss me off though. Do they not have jobs? Are they really only offended enough to arrest someone when their orders don't get obeyed (and why does that have anything to do with it at all)? Ask the girl when the crime was committed. See if she gives a crap about the kid not listening to the cops. I'm pretty sure she thinks that the kid ought to have been arrested as soon as he pressed upload.
Something wrong there. Seriously wrong.
posted by Monstro D. Whale | 9:06 PM
11 Comments:
MySpace and 16 year olds is, in general, a really bad idea. However, there are probably 50 million+ (literally) teens on there.
BTW, ever seen that viral "in the butt" Myspace/Youtube video? (Don't worry, it's not porn.) Pretty funny stuff, as I recall. This younger brother of some 18-year-old girl catches a big fight on tape between the girl and her mom, on the topic of meeting people on MySpace. And the brother keeps harassing the two of them, using the phrase "in the butt" repeatedly. Naturally, that video went viral and was seen by millions.
Most teens aren't responsible enough to be trusted with digital cameras. Remember that when kids had to get their parents to develop film, they had to actually consider whether taking a picture would give rise to parental wrath. If these pictures hadn't been taken in the first place, these kids wouldn't be in the predicament that they are in. Should teens be punished for being teens? Should fools be punished for being foolish?
Mmmm....yeah...
What? Do you think criminals are smart.
This is pretty much my finger on what's wrong with the world, we never think anyone should be punished. There's always too many extinuating circumstances. Why even have rules or laws when anyone and everyone can break them.
Ask the girl who was naked on the internet whether the guy should be punished. I'm betting she thinks that a crime has been committed.
But more than that, why are we always so namby pamby about doling out the punishment. Is it any wonder that we have an entire nation that believes the rules don't apply to them. We complain constantly about the way the world is going. Well, what's the problem? The problem is that there are never consequences, or if there are, they are so rare as to be above consideration. We don't censor each other anymore. The police don't arrest people unless they catch them red handed committing a felony, and even then, most people get out of that.
Punish fools. Punish them with impunity.
Meh... Our society is already focused too much on punishment rather than rehabilitation. A failure of an entire nation of Christians to adhere to their religion, of which forgiveness, not punishment, is a primary tenet. Punishment is Old Testament. Eye for an eye and all that garbage. What does that result in? Israel versus Palestine. Generation upon generation bent upon revenge, hatred, and punishment. We could say the girl is guilty of a crime by taking the pictures... indecent exposure. Or we could say the people who think the human body is shameful are guilty of a crime against humanity. Or perhaps the parents for being lax and giving a digital camera to the daughter, guilty of aiding and abetting. So, why place all the blame on any one of them? Make them all do community service perhaps, and get something good and useful out of the situation while reinforcing their moral values, perhaps?
First off, no.
Our society is not focussed on punishing. It's focussed on excusing. Which of the major crimes that have been in the news in the last five years got punished? Haliburtin? Black Water? White Water? Hell, we got attacked on September 11th, we didn't even go after the people who did that (we went after Iraq instead--another crime that escapes punishment).
Do you read my blog? I come up with a case a week where someone ought to be punished but isn't. there's too much "my bad" around here, not enough, "I'm sorry."
I'll tell you, this is what is wrong with American society. This is why we will probably be a third world country in 50 years. No one gets blamed for anything. No one. There's always an extenuating circumstance. Look at your comment, you did it yourself. Blame the parents also. No one takes the blame. Shit goes wrong and everyone always has an excuse as to why what they did wrong shouldn't count.
So, what? There are crimes but no criminals? Victims but no victimizers? Problems without solutions. By the way, Christian? The idea of punishing people when they do something wrong isn't Christian. It's a bit older than that. The Christian part, in my opinion, may very well be the problem. Too much forgiveness.
Now, I understand if you're an anarchist or something. But even then, telling me that people shouldn't get punished for wrong doings is a bit odd. Why even have a society?
Ah, yes... I misled myself. By 'our society' I mean the media. Our culture is clearly dependent on the media, and the media would have you believe that punishment is the best thing in the world. On tv, people get punished for everything. Bigwigs get caught redhanded, lose lawsuits, and get tossed in jail. Everything is black and white in the dreamworld that is US media. Punishment is big business. Prisons dot the landscape, with something like 1 out of 10 Americans having been in jail. Those who go to jail are more likely to return to jail, statistically. Perhaps that is something they learn in jail. Perhaps it is a return to the state of poverty they were living in prior to jail that inspires their misdeeds. Perhaps that is because they were a bad apple to begin with. Perhaps a better system of rehabilitation would have prevented it. The truth of the matter is available, in statistics available on the subject. And the problem is that the dogma of punishment contains to dominate the system when statistics prove that something else should be done. Some countries are developing better systems. The US? I'm not sure.
Wait. Hold up.
I get it. I've heard it. Million times. The problem isn't the kid who's peddling kiddie porn, it's the media, and the system, etc.. Yes?
What we really need to do is rehabilitate. True there too? So, the problem with the kid who peddles kiddie porn isn't that he has no moral responsibility for his action, but that the government doesn't rehabilitate its prisoners and/or parents give their kids digital cameras?
I'm sorry you lost me. Is there an actual moral universe in there somewhere? I'll tell you what, since there is no right or wrong (only a media that's not doing its job and a government that won't own up to all those poor citizens who just can't seem to stay out of trouble) and it's all a matter of opinion, I can imagine a way to empty many of those prisons pdq. I mean, seriously, since there's no fundamental "gee, peddling kiddie porn is wrong" then you might as well throw out, "hey, let's not electricute people for shoplifting."
Now, I'll suggest an alternate scenario--one based on rules and appropriate conduct and repercussions. Instead of deciding that the media, the parents, the govenrment, the stars, dianetics, etc., are responsible for a kid putting up pictures of his 16 year old ex-girlfriend on the internet, I'm going to suggest a whacky next move: blame the kid.
Now, Intaki, old bean, you and I have been around the block together a few times, so I'm going to ask you, are you really disagreeing with me? Do you really think that people aren't responsible for their own actions? Is it really some grand super conspiracy set up by the Christian Media U.S. Senate Inc.? Or do people have to take credit for what they, themselves, do. I've generally found the latter position helps in my own life when I need to make big changes. How about you?
As for the filled up prisons/jails. Yeah, they exist. But let's face it. It's hard to tell if that's because the law is more likely to lock people up, or because the law's laxity has invited more egregious crimes. The tweekers probably need to be locked up, even if that means that we'll need to build more prisons. Maybe a recession has led to more crime. That's possible, but even in that case, it doesn't mean that people shouldn't take charge of their own action. This kid didn't seem to understand that what he was doing was a felony. It's his stupidity that's the cause of his incarcaration, not some weirded out system.
Ah yes. If he was imprisoned for his stupidity, there are a great many people who should be imprisoned. In fact, prisons would be overflowing... wait... they already are.
Also, this guy putting pictures of his girlfriend on the net is more a case of a high school relationship gone south than a case of a diehard kiddie porn peddler putting his smut on the net.
But are you asking society to take responsibility for the kid's stupidity instead of having the kid take responsibility for his own stupidity?
If the kid took responsibility, he'd have taken down the images himself and admitted to wanting revenge on his ex (which is more likely than him putting up the pics in an effort to promote kiddie porn). In this case, I believe you said he refused to. The cops actually gave him the opportunity to take responsibility, and he threw it in their face. Now that, is truly stupidity. And perhaps for that reason alone he should be... hmmm.
If the point of your article is that a moral compass is lacking in the US today, I think we need another example. Better yet, give us a set of examples illustrating various points of this. :)
Damn you Intaki, Damn YOU!!!
Actually the original point of my post was that the kid is going to prison for telling a cop to fuck off rather than for peddling kiddie porn (call it what you like it, I'm an English Ph.D. student, I can play with synonyms too--doesn't change much unless you're swayed by political correctness... which I'm not). Basically, what I'm saying is that you can do whatever the fuck you want, but the moment you defy the police that's when you're in trouble. Which I still think is true if it matters.
As for the kid not knowing right from wrong...he doesn't know right from wrong. No conscience. That's the problem. Reacts to school boy crushes gone South by committing a felony. What would he have to do to demonstrate that he doesn't know right from wrong for you? Shoot her? Is that it? Unless he does the extreme, it's not even worth thinking about?
Maybe the question, then, is how do we punish someone who doesn't know right from wrong? Obviously, throwing them in jail may make society feel better and allow people to forget that this kid messed up. But does that really do anything positive? Just because people imagine an affront to their own morals should mean that the person who committed said affront should be locked away and forgotten about? If the kid has no sense of right and wrong and you toss him in jail, he's not learning anything. In his mind, (admittedly delusional), he hasn't done anything wrong, so there is no psychological connect for him between the crime and the punishment. In order to punish the kid, you'd have to teach him morality first, which would be a lot more difficult than simply throwing him in jail.
Okay, so here's where I think we differ.
I think if a 17 year old kid hasn't figured out the difference between right and wrong, too damn bad. Actually, at 17 I have some feelings of rehabilitation. But at18? 20? 35? Less and less mercy. At that point, I think they are at fault for not knowing right from wrong. Now if the reasons are pharmaceuetical (they're too medicated to learn) or related to upbringing (they never were expected to learn), I could care less. That they don't know is reason enough for me to think of them as not worth the trouble of making "special cases" for them.
I agree with you that locking people who don't know right from wrong up doesn't really engineer some kind of conscience, but I don't agree that it does not good. One less amoral person walking the streets is really not a bad thing in my opinion. I have moral restraint and I think people who don't are dangerous. I am willing to concede you the point, but not your conclusion.
By the way, this whole business about negative reinforcement not teaching lessons is spurious. It's possible that people don't know how to handle negative reinforcement (because it so seldom is used), but it nonetheless works. The fear of the F is pretty much what makes half my students do their work. The desire for the A is, of course, the other half.
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