Playing Eric
In a recent post...well, the last post really. Avram attempted to get around what can now only be a mental exercise. A game I used to illustrate the difference between my thinking and that of the Drivler. The game might be called, "Getting a flying character past Eric," but aside from this moderate level of explanation, I don't think that I fully fleshed out the rules of the game. Avram, not fully understanding the rules, postulated a simple solution to this Gordion knot: name the character Flying Guy and say, "that's what he does." What possible recourse would our hypothetical "Eric" have to deny such a character.
Okay, so first of all, you're main problem Avram is that you've defined the character in terms of his power. That's a no-no. After all, you've essentially said that the character is defined as having the power that we are attempting to define a character in order to get. Let me try this another way.
In Champions, or at least in this Eric-esque version of Champions, we do not make characters based on their powers. No. We define the character based on their conception. What is the conception of this character? How do these powers work? Then we buy all the appropriate powers.
This brings us immediately to Eric's most powerful weapon against his players--point totals. You see, in Champions, powers, skills, super-heroic characteristics, cost points, and you only have so many points to spend (220 for those who want to know). Now, if you suggest your concept, it naturally implies the powers that your character should have, and once I've suggested my concept, it only remains to purchase those powers--all those powers--in order to bring into the game the character which my concept has implied.
Now, here may be seen the basis for the difference between the way of thinking of the Drivler and myself. I am always trying to curb these definitions so that I don't have to buy too many powers, or more precisely, so that I do not find it impossible to create the character within the 220 point limit.
From another standpoint, concept limits power. I might say, for instance, that I want a 2d6 killing attack with the advantage "penetrating." Well, what's the concept? Well, my character is covered by mono-filament spikes. Now, some villain comes along and he has armor which is "hardened" (nullifies penetrating attacks) because it is sealed even to deficiencies at the atomic level--that's his concept. Neat! Well, now I have real trouble buying a killing attack that is double penetrating because well...how do I say that it can find chinks in the armor smaller than an atom. I know, I have a tacion field of relative danger! But then, what does triple penetrating look like? And what other powers must I imply by being surrounded by Tacyons?
So, for instance, your flying guy. How does his power work? He avoids things Arthur Dent-esque. You've already suggested the million or so other powers that go along with this concept, and thus have already implied that your character will not fit inside the 220 point limit. If we say that the character has a philosophical aversion to the Earth, then we must be able to account for all the other powers that are implied for a character who can tanscend natural laws by the sheer force of his philosophical posturing, and in doing so, we have ceased to create a superhero, and are now working on a god.
Another concept might be that the character read the Hitchhiker's trilogy and was so moved by it that he incorporated this particular feature into his very being. So, the character can make real aspects of the novel? What's to stop him from moving faster than light after reading Asimov or seeing the future after reading Stephen King? I hope you see the difficulty.
Now, we must also consider as rules to this game another difficulty that is likely to come up, and these might be said as repercussive problems within the Ganthian universe. Let us assume that the hypothetical Eric is really really good at making his characters (the villains of the story) and that in many ways his concepts are dictated by yours. Wolverine implies Sabertooth. Green Lantern implies Sinestro. Except Eric isn't just kind of good at this, he's wicked, and a little bit malevolent. Green Lantern wouldn't simply have Sinestro in Eric's universe, he'd have a whole army of Green Lantern forces hunting down the renegade Green Lantern character attempting to shirk his galactic responsibility by hanging out on Earth and stopping bank robberies. Meanwhile there would be an entire faction of evil super creatures from another dimension that are the natural and sworn enemies of the Lanterns (and who are more than a match for their nemesis) and they're hunting down our Green Lantern hero as well. Eric enjoyed villains who could suck your soul from a thousand miles away.
So, for instance, if you said that Flying Guy came from another dimension where people could all fly--and thereby, stopped any counter-argument that Eric might have posed concerning "laws of nature"--you could expect to be hunted by a serious group of galactic bad asses sworn to keep creatures from alternate dimensions out of this one. I'm talking an organization with psykers and dropships and mecha and mind-slave supercharacters who are above the feeble law enforcement of Ganth and who are all ready to spirit you away to some hell hole of a prison in a forgotten section of the galaxy where you will rot for all eternity to pay for your crimes against this dimension.
In other words, when coming up with this concept, you have to be able to:
1- define the nature of your power so that it actually gives you something useful to do in a world where people have anti-tank weaponry for arms and computerized targeting systems for brains. 2- limit your concept so that the character can be created within the limited point value that your are allotted.
3- avoid concepts that suggest environmental repercussions equal to nuclear annihilation.
Now, to give you an example of how this works, I would like to use an actual character from our group known as The Puppeteer. The Puppeteer grew up as a lonely orphan after his powers manifested and killed off his parents, and presumbably his sister--who was never found. His concept was that he had access to a Tune Town-esque place where all inanimate objects were alive and could talk. He had the power to overlay that reality with this, and so, he could bring inanimate objects to life. He could, for instance, animate a house.
Except that a house doesn't have legs or arms. It can flick on and off various light switches and air conditioning/heating units. But it really can't punch a guy. More often than not, Puppeteer could only make various things talk...but then who really wants to talk to a soda can? Every once in a while, he'd animate something interesting, but most of the crap you find on super-heroic battlefield is not worth mentioning, and more importantly, the objects that he animated could only use the points they already had, so there was no, "give the pencils flight," or anything like that. The pencils would simply come to life, happy to see the Puppeteer and generally not smart enough to keep quiet while we attempted to sneak up on whatever bad ass was threatening the peace of Ganth that day.
But what were the repercussions of the Puppeteer's power. Well, he'd blasted his sister into that other dimension where she was now a tyrant queen (which is why all the stuff that the Puppeteer animated was so happy to be on this side of the barrier--they'd escaped), and unlike her brother, she had access to the big bad M.F.'s in her dimension which she routinely sent at our boy to mess him up. So, he was hounded by giant living teddybears with razor sharp claws and various other goodies from the toy chest turned dangerous. Evidently, she had never grown up enough to animate space battle stations, or maybe galactic patrol was taking those down without our noticing them, but when she put her mind to it, rock 'em sock 'em robots could get a little rough...and that's what you get for being able to talk to soda cans in the Eric-verse.
Okay, so first of all, you're main problem Avram is that you've defined the character in terms of his power. That's a no-no. After all, you've essentially said that the character is defined as having the power that we are attempting to define a character in order to get. Let me try this another way.
In Champions, or at least in this Eric-esque version of Champions, we do not make characters based on their powers. No. We define the character based on their conception. What is the conception of this character? How do these powers work? Then we buy all the appropriate powers.
This brings us immediately to Eric's most powerful weapon against his players--point totals. You see, in Champions, powers, skills, super-heroic characteristics, cost points, and you only have so many points to spend (220 for those who want to know). Now, if you suggest your concept, it naturally implies the powers that your character should have, and once I've suggested my concept, it only remains to purchase those powers--all those powers--in order to bring into the game the character which my concept has implied.
Now, here may be seen the basis for the difference between the way of thinking of the Drivler and myself. I am always trying to curb these definitions so that I don't have to buy too many powers, or more precisely, so that I do not find it impossible to create the character within the 220 point limit.
From another standpoint, concept limits power. I might say, for instance, that I want a 2d6 killing attack with the advantage "penetrating." Well, what's the concept? Well, my character is covered by mono-filament spikes. Now, some villain comes along and he has armor which is "hardened" (nullifies penetrating attacks) because it is sealed even to deficiencies at the atomic level--that's his concept. Neat! Well, now I have real trouble buying a killing attack that is double penetrating because well...how do I say that it can find chinks in the armor smaller than an atom. I know, I have a tacion field of relative danger! But then, what does triple penetrating look like? And what other powers must I imply by being surrounded by Tacyons?
So, for instance, your flying guy. How does his power work? He avoids things Arthur Dent-esque. You've already suggested the million or so other powers that go along with this concept, and thus have already implied that your character will not fit inside the 220 point limit. If we say that the character has a philosophical aversion to the Earth, then we must be able to account for all the other powers that are implied for a character who can tanscend natural laws by the sheer force of his philosophical posturing, and in doing so, we have ceased to create a superhero, and are now working on a god.
Another concept might be that the character read the Hitchhiker's trilogy and was so moved by it that he incorporated this particular feature into his very being. So, the character can make real aspects of the novel? What's to stop him from moving faster than light after reading Asimov or seeing the future after reading Stephen King? I hope you see the difficulty.
Now, we must also consider as rules to this game another difficulty that is likely to come up, and these might be said as repercussive problems within the Ganthian universe. Let us assume that the hypothetical Eric is really really good at making his characters (the villains of the story) and that in many ways his concepts are dictated by yours. Wolverine implies Sabertooth. Green Lantern implies Sinestro. Except Eric isn't just kind of good at this, he's wicked, and a little bit malevolent. Green Lantern wouldn't simply have Sinestro in Eric's universe, he'd have a whole army of Green Lantern forces hunting down the renegade Green Lantern character attempting to shirk his galactic responsibility by hanging out on Earth and stopping bank robberies. Meanwhile there would be an entire faction of evil super creatures from another dimension that are the natural and sworn enemies of the Lanterns (and who are more than a match for their nemesis) and they're hunting down our Green Lantern hero as well. Eric enjoyed villains who could suck your soul from a thousand miles away.
So, for instance, if you said that Flying Guy came from another dimension where people could all fly--and thereby, stopped any counter-argument that Eric might have posed concerning "laws of nature"--you could expect to be hunted by a serious group of galactic bad asses sworn to keep creatures from alternate dimensions out of this one. I'm talking an organization with psykers and dropships and mecha and mind-slave supercharacters who are above the feeble law enforcement of Ganth and who are all ready to spirit you away to some hell hole of a prison in a forgotten section of the galaxy where you will rot for all eternity to pay for your crimes against this dimension.
In other words, when coming up with this concept, you have to be able to:
1- define the nature of your power so that it actually gives you something useful to do in a world where people have anti-tank weaponry for arms and computerized targeting systems for brains. 2- limit your concept so that the character can be created within the limited point value that your are allotted.
3- avoid concepts that suggest environmental repercussions equal to nuclear annihilation.
Now, to give you an example of how this works, I would like to use an actual character from our group known as The Puppeteer. The Puppeteer grew up as a lonely orphan after his powers manifested and killed off his parents, and presumbably his sister--who was never found. His concept was that he had access to a Tune Town-esque place where all inanimate objects were alive and could talk. He had the power to overlay that reality with this, and so, he could bring inanimate objects to life. He could, for instance, animate a house.
Except that a house doesn't have legs or arms. It can flick on and off various light switches and air conditioning/heating units. But it really can't punch a guy. More often than not, Puppeteer could only make various things talk...but then who really wants to talk to a soda can? Every once in a while, he'd animate something interesting, but most of the crap you find on super-heroic battlefield is not worth mentioning, and more importantly, the objects that he animated could only use the points they already had, so there was no, "give the pencils flight," or anything like that. The pencils would simply come to life, happy to see the Puppeteer and generally not smart enough to keep quiet while we attempted to sneak up on whatever bad ass was threatening the peace of Ganth that day.
But what were the repercussions of the Puppeteer's power. Well, he'd blasted his sister into that other dimension where she was now a tyrant queen (which is why all the stuff that the Puppeteer animated was so happy to be on this side of the barrier--they'd escaped), and unlike her brother, she had access to the big bad M.F.'s in her dimension which she routinely sent at our boy to mess him up. So, he was hounded by giant living teddybears with razor sharp claws and various other goodies from the toy chest turned dangerous. Evidently, she had never grown up enough to animate space battle stations, or maybe galactic patrol was taking those down without our noticing them, but when she put her mind to it, rock 'em sock 'em robots could get a little rough...and that's what you get for being able to talk to soda cans in the Eric-verse.
posted by Monstro D. Whale at
10:36 AM
6 Comments:
Wow, Monstro. I thought I understood the whole “Eric” thing in your last post, but now I understand even less. I’m not sure that I get the implications of “I am always trying to curb these definitions so that I don't have to buy too many powers, or more precisely, so that I do not find it impossible to create the character within the 220 point limit.” Does this mean that you try to satisfy yourself with reality, whereas I do not? I would agree that I am generally not satisfied with reality, but I don’t know if I’m missing your point.
I also get your Borgesian point that Eric is God and his Champions world of Ganth (like Borges’ “Garden of Forking Paths”) is our world. I’m a bit disturbed by the malevolence of your God, but he’s your God, and I won’t fault you for Him. In fact, if I had a God, he’d be like your Eric: always attacking you with your own weaknesses under the auspices of Trial.
I’ll admit that I can’t think very well into the creation of a superhero who wouldn’t incur Eric’s wrath. The conundrum is impossible because it involves a mortal trying to beat god. You have 220 points with which to create a character. To get extra points (for more powers), you give your character weaknesses. Either way, every character is roughly equal point-wise. Creativity can help a great deal in devising powers that have multiple uses: just think of all the things Spider-Man can do with those webs. In the new movie, Spidey grabs things with them, creates nets for falling people, “flies” with them, uses them to stop a speeding train, and probably does a few other things I missed. True, Spider-Man implies a Green Goblin (two, actually) and a Doc Oc. With Spider-Man, although we might get caught up in the excitement and danger of the adventure, we KNOW that he’ll survive: he’s a franchise, and as with the lion’s share of superheroes, there’s no good reason to kill off a franchise. No matter what He throws at him, God ultimately smiles on the comic book character.
Not so with the Champions character, who lives or dies by the roll of the dice. You’ve said that Erik creates a Doc Oc for a Spider-Man, but you’ve also said that he's somewhat malevolent. Here’s the unsolvable conundrum: Erik, as God of his Universe, has unlimited points. And if God wants YOU, then you better watch out. There is nothing a character can do with 200 points that God can’t undo with infinite points (for instance, creating an entire dimension with an entire race of beings just to hunt your flying character). You’ve said that everyone gets shot to death in Ganth, but if you were uncreative enough to create “Gun Man,” Erik would find a way to get you killed: there are, at least, bigger guns to bring against you, and guns are just the beginning. And once he sets your enemies against you, things are handed over to the mechanics of combat, which in the interest of fairness preclude God from smiling upon you. “Flying Man,” “Gun man,” hell, even if you created a character called “God Man,” he’d still be a God Man with roughly 220 points of abilities (and he’d probably be weaker than Thor).
The only way to trump Erik would be to play as another gamemaster, creating some kind of being to swallow the entire world of Ganth. The closest equivalent in the comic book world would be Galactus. Even then, superheroes have stopped Galactus in the past.
Jesus Drivler, it's not always about YOU. But as you've asked, let me try to explain. Any character conception has the ability to yield infinite ammount of power. Any.
Perhaps the most obvious character ever created is the Human Torch. What does he do? He controls fire. What does this allow him to do? He shoots out flames, he can envelope his body in flames, he can go super nova, he can fly. If all he could do was shoot flames, no problem. But imagine the ammount of control required to heat air in such a way as to create a force field around you and yet not burn yourself in the process. Imagine the ammount of control to heat only certain air molecules in such a way as to boyeau (how the hell do you spell that) you into the air, and not slowly. Hell the human torch flies at mach speed. Ask yourself, is this enough control over heat to fuse atoms together. In doing so can he essentially throw off tacion particles in such a way as to transport himself through time. Any power imaginable, with a bit of imagination, turns god like. The trick then is to figure out how to set limits up--how to define your powers so that you don't have to buy all those other conceivable powers which you can't buy because your character can only cost 220 points. Your blind shaver, what else might he be able to do? Keep going and going, and then yes, the ability to shave while blind renders you god-like. It suggests at the very least omniscience.
As for Eric, well, he is at much at the whims of his players as they are susceptible to his. After all, the players are allowed to come up with ANY background they wish. They may say that they are from a planet of ice cream worshippers and then Eric will have to incorporate such a world into his Ganth-ian universe. Readers read Spider Man for the sake of enjoyment. If Spider Man goes through a particular bad spell, the reader will keep reading. Not so with the Champions player. Therefore, even on this small point, Eric must bend to his player's will.
But this is not, necessarilly, the rules of this game. In order to beat Eric, one must come up with a character who's concept includes flight, but not in such a way as it includes a million other powers that would make the character costly, while all the while staying away from a character "background" that invites galactic tribulation.
I finally get your point, Monstro. You’re saying it’s all about ME. So wanton am I in my abuse of my allusory and associative powers that I fail to account for the repercussions of my actions. When I conjure up a Wallace Stevens firecat to halt the advance of a bristling Ovidian boar, I am creating dangerous ripples in the space-time continuum. When I bridge the stories of a crazy woman and a blind cop, an entire Universe—the one where these stories are disparate—dies.
On the “Super Friends” show, the impish Mxyzptlk would occasionally show up to tamper with the fabric of reality. Finally, one of the team would pin the meddling on him. Speak the bugger’s name backwards and the world returns to its previous, rightful order.
You point out that readers can create any world they wish; I am as much at their mercy as they are at mine. I said in a previous comment that you “went Jesus” on me, but now I see your super-heroism, as well. I may invite galactic tribulation with my God trippin’, but there you are, your 220 points yielding infinite power, to turn my allusion into illusion with a single word: “Kltpzyxm!"
So I must say, as every thwarted villain says (even though he knows he’ll be thwarted again): “You may have stopped me this time, Monstro, but you’ve not seen the last of The Driv’ler!”
No, you're doing it again. You're turning the mundane into the superheroic, and look what happens when you do. You're destroying universes with your quotes. There's no way you're going to be able to afford that with 220 points.
I, on the other hand, see the destruction of people's feeble universes as falling somewhat short of super-heroism. Hell, I could do it every day if I didn't care how many enemies I gathered in my department. I do not need to show the significance of what I am doing in extraordinary terms. It's just business as usual.
Yep, that's the villain's problem: he might actually do some damage if he wasn't tripped up by his own megalomania.
Fascinating. Post after post on all this. Oh to be a PhD student. Oh yeah, and up yours Monstro. Yes I don't know the rules, but I think you dealt with my Avoidance guy -- not as you notice "Guy Who Flys" -- rather shoddily. He avoids things. I would say this is very conceptual. Flying is a natural, as natural as anything, ability that stems from this overall power concept. Hence my feeling that this hero would work. But like, whatever dude.
His true purpose is to piss off other players and the GameMaster which apparently he has. Ha Ha Ha. Fuck the rules. Feeling rather villanous these days anyway. I have this nice knife. Would you like to be stabbed? What if I talk like Pepe LePue?
What always got me was his effortless graceful bounding to perky music while the cat madly ran full pelt {pun intended} as if the hordes of hell were after her. Which they were. Of course when the stripes are switched she purses him -- which just means we can all be someone's villian.
Will work on being yours. I'll keep talking you up to potential publishers and spread lies and innuendo to your children that the world is really a nice place and the weather in California is much much nicer than the crap you put up with Mass.
Am already messing with Driveler. Got some old acting buddies to shine him on in a bar the other night. Both he and whomever he tries to "Knock out," will have a major surprise when they both spontaneously have the biggest orgasm of their life.
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